What is Faith?
Thursday, December 16, 2010 at 11:42AM 
It may not have generated any comments at Students of Jesus, but one sentence from Monday’s Mediation on Faith garnered 20 comments over at Facebook. It was either a really poor sentence or we’ve got more to explore about the essence of faith.I use Facebook to promote Students of Jesus, so I posted a provocative statement along with a link to this blog. The offending statement?
“I want nothing to do with a definition of faith that requires agreement with propositions, I want everything to do with a faith that requires me to hope and trust in the Father's promise.”
Here’s a sampling of comments from people who lined up to take issue:
- I'm also having a tough time understanding your use of "propositions."
- I am wary of and adamantly against leapfrogging over propositions and intellectual understanding: Very strange ideas of "faith" tend to emerge as a result.
- I do not say this in rancor, but in honesty; I wonder at how you will maintain your denominational position.
- When you downplay the importance of intellectual pursuit and propositional truth, people just believe what they're told.
- Where do we see, scripturally, that "doctrine has very little to do with faith"?
Somewhere along the way, faith has morphed from knowing Jesus to knowing about him. I’m writing today to suggest a possibility: what if faith is relationship--relationship with a living, thinking, feeling, Person--what if faith is relationship with God?
The Apostle Paul points to Abraham as the father of our faith. Romans chapter 4 suggests that we come into right relationship with God by trusting Him: in Abraham’s case he placed his trust in God’s promises. In our case, we can place our trust in God’s gracious initiative to us in Jesus Christ. Abraham was not required to agree with any doctrinal statements about God. Instead, God invited Abraham into a relationship. And what a relationship they had! Based upon that relationship Abraham trusted God’s guidance with respect to where to live, how to plan his family, even whether to perform human sacrifice! In a society littered with a multiplicity of gods, Abraham turned his back on every god except some strange God without a name, a God without an image and without any religious structure. God invited Abraham into a relationship.
God spoke to Abraham about the stars in the sky, the sands on the seashore, and about how the two of them could become friends. Abraham had no religious traditions, dogma, or culture to which he had to subscribe. He was simply God’s servant, and eventually God’s friend. Faith and doctrine are two different things. What doctrines did Abraham agree with?
When Jesus called the twelve to follow him, he asked of them a great deal: within the only monotheistic religion in the history of the world, Jesus told his followers, “if you’ve seen me, you’ve seen the Father.” He said, in effect, to know him was to know the Father. The way to the Father was relationship with the Son, and it still is because the Son is the exact representation of God’s nature.
Hebrews 11 is faith's "Hall of Fame." What doctrines required agreement of those whom are lauded for their faith? Verse six says simply that "he who comes to God must believe that he is, and he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him." That's relationship, not information. In fact, relationship is the surest way to to know the truth about someone: No one can deceive me with “facts” about my wife because after 26 years together I know her: I know her ways, her words, and in many cases I know her thoughts before she thinks them. This is my guarantee that no one can deceive me about my wife, and the same can (and should) be true in our relationship with Jesus.
Faith and relationship will lead us to sound teaching, but teaching will not lead us to intimacy, relationship and faith. People who affirm correct doctrine are not guaranteed relationship with the Father, Son, or Spirit. “You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life,” Jesus said in John 5:39. “These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life.”
One final Christmas example: when the Magi came to Jerusalem they inquired about the birth of the new king. The Scribes (masters of doctrine) answered the question correctly (Micah 5:2) yet not one went to bow before the new born king. Which would have been better that first Christmas: to know all the answers about Jesus, or to bow at his feet?
Reader Comments (16)
Oh my! This is brilliant! This is my prayer right now - make me a friend, God. I want to know Him and for Him to know me. I want true relationship, not just facts and the "right answers" about God.
Both Abraham and the disciples encountered a God that spoke in their "present tense." This is why I said over on Twitter that I tried the relationship with Jesus thing and finally, after decades, I've given up. Don't know if you saw it, but I posted a link to something I wrote that explains why I gave up:
http://bit.ly/i3Oixj
Thanks for your kind words, Katherine! My prayer is (and will always be) much the same.
Hi Cheryl: good to hear from you again. I read your blog and I can only say how sad I am that you're efforts and journey were so difficult. From what I know of you on Twitter (and how much can that be?!?) I'm happy that you are at peace with yourself now. Grace to you, and peace.
I disagree with your proposition that faith and relationship will lead one to sound teaching. What could possibly point you to this? Church history? Seriously.
Again, without rancor, how can you support this? Faith and relationship (with God) will lead you to an overcoming Christian life, likely, but "sound teaching."
Seriously. It's not a trick question. What you can you point to to support this?
It's not a trick question. But it's a *very serious* question. I am assuming, which may not be assumable, that you mean that sentence to be taken literally.
Hi Charles. I knew if I kept writing on this subject I would eventually find something that would raise your eyebrows! :-)
And I know, by the why, that you mean no rancor or disrespect. And yes, you're correct--I mean the sentence quite literally.
Because you ask the question in all seriousness I will do you the honor of thinking through your question slowly and deliberatively--and also, since I've been fighting a flu bug all day, I'm going to bed early--so let's both ask the Lord to speak to us in our sleep. (Psalm 127 in the NASB). Until then, peace to you and yours.
Ray, thanks for the great post, always a pleasure.
Charles, as I read your comment, I was reminded of John 10. Specifically, "the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. (4) When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. (5) But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice."
I read this and don't see another way to get to sound teaching. An intimate relationship with Jesus is the only way we know what he is saying, and the only way we can tell when someone is lying to us or trying to deceive us.
Church history doesn't prove this point, but I think the bible does.
Hi Josh: Thanks for the encouragement and for welcoming Charles' question. Your answer is pretty darned good!
I'd like to add that during my lifetime I have again and again encountered people who were subject to horrific teaching and distortions about the person and nature of Jesus, yet because of their personsal devotion to him found their way to places of freedom, safety, AND sound doctrine.
In college I knew a girl who became born again and was straightaway snatched up by Mormon missionaries. I saw her a year later and she said, "You know, the people were so nice to me, but it never felt right. It didn't feel like Jesus, so I left."
A have another friend who sojourned with the "Moonies" (the Unification Church) who left after a a couple of years. He confided to me that the attraction of the Moonies appealed to his arrogance and pride, but that the Lord came to him and spoke to him about their false teaching AND the heart issues that had opened him up to deception.
Perhaps these stories supplement Josh's note?
I am confused. Are we talking about sheepfolds (mormons and moonies) or are we talking about sound doctrine (should I believe that teacher who tells me that God will extract the tithe from me if I don't pay it)?
My earlier comment may have been too "hot" for this thread to be posted, since I mentioned the dreaded "T" word; so I will take another stab at this.
A principle in Algebra tells us that if a = b; then b = a. Ray may be saying that having correct doctrine does not equal "faith" and that having "faith" does not equal correct doctrine. This is non controversial, I think; these are not things that can be Algebraically reduced because we are describing parts of a jigsaw puzzle rather than a mathematical formulation.
I challenge the idea that faith and relationship lead one to sound teaching not only *because* a does not equal b (this is not math) but also because the relationship between these two notions is not one in which they of necessity give each other a leg up.
Certainly we can see in scripture and in life someone hearing something and the Holy Spirit making it alive to them. Faith and relationship lead to understanding. You might say that Faith and Relationship are "upstream" from understanding - a part of, and perhaps a precursor to, correct doctrine; the same way that culture is upstream from politics, or religion is upstream from culture.
But "understanding" is not "correct doctrine." Look at the Ephesians mentioned in Acts who had not even heard of the Holy Spirit. They readily received when they were taught. But relationship got them nowhere.
The Centurian had relationship but not understanding or doctrine, for that matter.
But wait, I can hear Ray saying; in these cases the relationship preceded the understanding and the doctrine! In these cases, "a" has led to "b"
But wait, says I. Hold those Kentucky horses. While it seems that I have made Ray's case for him; I have not, IMHO. I await his input before proceeding.
As it please you, Shepherd. I have not returned here before now, waiting for the Holidays to pass. But I think at some point the questions that arise out of your declaration should be examined, at least in your own mind. Otherwise you might give people hope when our real-world experiences are not this way, not yet.
That teacher who told me that God would extract the tithe from me if I didn't pay was a Vineyard man. Keep that in mind while you contemplate these things. I *lost my faith* over the Vineyard's lack of open-ness and integrity about what passes for tithing teaching in various member fellowships. And I am so serious about this.
Hi Charles. I'm so sorry your experiences were bad, and I feel helpless to comment or try to shed light other than to pray for the grace of God in your life (even as I too need that grace every day).
As to the questions that arise from my opinions I can only say there are plenty, even for me. The biggest of which is whether I will allow my personal (limited) experiences to be normative, or keep my eye on the revelation as I understand it it. Dangers everywhere!
peace to you.
I am confused. Are we talking about sheepfolds (mormons and moonies) or are we talking about sound doctrine (should I believe that teacher who tells me that God will extract the tithe from me if I don't pay it)?
Hi Charles. I'm so sorry your experiences were bad, and I feel helpless to comment or try to shed light other than to pray for the grace of God in your life (even as I too need that grace every day).
As to the questions that arise from my opinions I can only say there are plenty, even for me. The biggest of which is whether I will allow my personal (limited) experiences to be normative, or keep my eye on the revelation as I understand it it. Dangers everywhere!
peace to you.
Both Abraham and the disciples encountered a God that spoke in their "present tense." This is why I said over on Twitter that I tried the relationship with Jesus thing and finally, after decades, I've given up. Don't know if you saw it, but I posted a link to something I wrote that explains why I gave up:
http://bit.ly/i3Oixj
Hi Josh: Thanks for the encouragement and for welcoming Charles' question. Your answer is pretty darned good!
I'd like to add that during my lifetime I have again and again encountered people who were subject to horrific teaching and distortions about the person and nature of Jesus, yet because of their personsal devotion to him found their way to places of freedom, safety, AND sound doctrine.
In college I knew a girl who became born again and was straightaway snatched up by Mormon missionaries. I saw her a year later and she said, "You know, the people were so nice to me, but it never felt right. It didn't feel like Jesus, so I left."
A have another friend who sojourned with the "Moonies" (the Unification Church) who left after a a couple of years. He confided to me that the attraction of the Moonies appealed to his arrogance and pride, but that the Lord came to him and spoke to him about their false teaching AND the heart issues that had opened him up to deception.
Perhaps these stories supplement Josh's note?